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ohio voting fraud

<< Feb 25, 2006 @ 15:30 >>

Welcome Crooks and Liars readers...

As far as I'm concerned, this is the final and definitive proof that both the 2000 and 2004 elections (and probably the 2002 Congress races) were fradulent:

There's two pretty scary articles out there, one from the Free Press and another written by some tinfoil hat blogger.

In the case of the Free Press article, you can't really declare it as crazy lefty conspircy theory considering they are merely summarizing the Government Accountability Office's report (PDF) on elections problems. Incidentally, this GAO report has gotten very little coverage.

But the most telling piece of information is this...

In the 2004 presidential election, an electronic voting machine (manufacturer: ES&S) in Youngstown, Ohio (Mahoning County) recorded NEGATIVE 25 MILLION votes for Kerry. Sources: Free Press, MSNBC, House.GOV PDF (Google HTML version), and any Google search for "voting machine in Mahoning County recorded a negative 25 million votes for Kerry".

So what is so significant about negative 25 million votes for Kerry that I would sit here are claim to you, at risk of looking like a totally nuts conspiracy theorist, that this piece of information finally cements for me that the 2004 election was fraudulent?

It's pretty simple really: I'm a computer scientist, and every time I've talked to a fellow geek I've said that if the electronic voting machines can be hacked/rigged that some white hat ("good" hacker) out there would only have to register some ridiculous number of votes – say a number greater than the population of the USA or the population of the planet – in order to bring the issue to the table for the media and every America. That kind of move would be an obvious sign of tampering, as compared to somebody who wanted to actually sway the election results who would simply only change a few thousand or hundred votes here and there.

Well, it happened. And, instead of a really, really big number they chose a number that would be equally suspicious: a negative number.

Or did they?

A few things don't make sense:

1. Most white hats are (arguably) Democrats, so why would they cast negative votes against Kerry?

2. Even if you think I'm wrong on point #1, the more important question is, why the hell would a voting machine be able to register a negative vote?

Well, that's just it really. I don't think this hacker trying to make his or her point did register a negative vote for Kerry. I think they registered a really, really BIG vote for Kerry.
Negative 25,000,000 is actually the same as +4,269,967,296 as far as your computer is concerned. Allow me to explain...

Most microchips these days represent an integer number as 32 ones and zeroes, or "bits." Both positive and negative numbers can be stored in the same 32 bits. A programmer has to tell the computer whether the number stored in the 32 bits is positive or negative. If the programmer tells the computer the number is signed (can be positive or negative) then the computer reads the integer as some value between -2,147,483,648 and 2,147,483,647. If the programmer tells the computer the number is unsigned (always positive) then the computer reads the integer as some value between 0 and 4,294,967,295.

In many computer programming languages, integers are by default signed... positive or negative. This is the case in the C language, which was most likely used for the voting machine. If the programmer is unskilled enough to write a hackable machine, then it is also quite likely they used the default for the integers rather than realising that votes would never be negative, and explicitly using unsigned integers. (Actually... totally regardless of whether the programmer used signed ints or unsigned ints, the actual mistake the programmer probably made was not using %u, and using %i or the very commonly used %d in their sprintf statements instead... which would have caused +4 billion to be logged as -25 million.)

So, the white hat hacker, who was desperately trying to tell our Nation that the machines cannot be trusted, registered FOUR BILLION votes for Kerry (that's 60% of the population of the planet). And, because the programmer was unskilled, this very big number got put into the 32-bits of a signed integer, which means this very large positive number was read by the computer as a smaller negative number (-25,000,000).

Ok, so wouldn't it be more likely that the hacker just put in a nice round number like -25,000,000 rather than 4,269,967,296? Of course! BUT, I'd say it is pretty obvious the number was rounded by the media in their reporting. It's just as effective and much easier to say "negative 25 million" on the news rather than 25,123,456 or whatever. Hell, you had better HOPE that number wasn't actually exactly -25,000,000, because if it was, then that almost surely excludes the possibility of a computer error.

So, in review...

If I was going to make a point about the complete terror of electronic voting machines, I would register a ridiculously huge number of votes for one candidate in order to force a National dialogue. And I've shown above that SOMEBODY DID THIS.

And mind you, this is just my analysis of one very specific situation. If you read the GAO report, or the summary from the Free Press you'll learn about many, many more reasons to believe our most fundamental democratic exercise has been compromised.

So, what do you do now? Petition your Congress members! Give them a call. Tell them to stop wasting their time on issues we'll never ever agree on as a country (like abortion, religion, the death penalty...), and instead concentrate on legislating our elections and ESPECIALLY electronic voting machines.

I DO NOT think we should use electronic voting machines at all, but if we do, they need to be open source and have a paper trail paper ballot or voter verified paper trail. Moreover, they need to be audited before the election, and stored in a secure location after the audit until they are used in the elections, and then audited again afterwards.

This isn't a partisan issue. Right Wingers will use their usual arguments against me: you are crazy, you are a conspiracy theorist, you are a baby who won't stop whining about an election that is over and done with. Those people simply lack any ability at critical thought. Every single American, regardless of political positioning, should want severely strict review of our elections in this country. Mr. Republican: wouldn't it burn you up if a machine counted your vote for Kerry instead of Bush? Kerry did win in many states and many counties you know......

Look, I know that this is all a pretty, dare I say, fucking big claim I'm making. It is, and should be, hard for anybody to swallow the idea that we can't trust our elections in this country. Nobody should want to have to believe something so terrible on a day to day basis.

But, the time has come to look at the facts. And, remember, this DOES NOT have to be about some wide sweeping conspiracy to get Bush back in the White House. It simply could have been only a few people acting alone. Many of the articles written on this subject offer compelling evidence of just that. Our elections need to be reviewed, not because of conspiracy, but because our electronic voting machines are so easily tampered with by pretty much anyone (and that's when they aren't simply just malfunctioning on their own).

This is why we need to drop the partisan bullshit on this topic and take a close look at our elections system... to prevent a few criminals out there from making our elections a fraud.

Good night, and good luck.

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Reader Comments...

February 25, 2006 @ 18:47:35

broccoli.pngnot TKwong (guest)

The fact of the matter is, people honestly don't care enough to do anything. Oh, you and I will, but considering that I get to vote for at least eight people in every local election, I don't think enough people care.

As for the media rounding stuff off: trust me it sounds better than a long string of numbers because nobody will process it otherwise.


February 26, 2006 @ 11:22:00

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

I'd like to point out that I think a less likely, but equally unacceptable alternative to the box being hacked would be that somewhere in the code the vote count is introduced with an uninitialized local variable. Many times when they tested this would have started at zero, and would have gone unnoticed. However, occasionally that uninitialized local variable would be *non* *zero* ... and the vote total would be off by whatever that value was.

February 26, 2006 @ 12:15:51

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

I believe I've found the original source of the negative 25 million story:


"That led to some races showing votes of negative 25 million, [the Mahoning County Board of Elections agency's chairman] Munroe said."

"'The numbers were nonsensical so we knew there were problems,' he said."

Mr. Munroe actually seems to attribute the negative 25 million count to human error on the part of the poll workers.

"The human error specifically was precinct officials getting nervous or overwhelmed by the number of people voting, and then failing to properly follow protocol to count the ballots in the machine, he said."

I'm not sure I understand this. They were using touch screen systems in Mahoning County. What part would the poll workers have played in the count? How could any human error throw off the count by 4 billion / negative 25 million?!

Human error or hacking... it actually doesn't matter. This is pretty simple logic: if even one voting machine can malfunction and lose or miscount votes (and it was more like hundreds nationally), the entire election could be defrauded either intentionally or accidentally.

February 26, 2006 @ 12:27:57

broccoli.pngnot wytechocol8 (guest)

"This is why we need to drop the partisan bullshit on this topic and take a close look at our elections system... to prevent a few criminals out there from making our elections a fraud."

I agree with the statement however earlier in your piece you claimed that the guys in the white hats are democrats. The republicans are getting away with what they are doing because the democrats DON'T wear the white hats either.

February 26, 2006 @ 12:41:05

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

Well, I was trying to prove an entirely different point. But I understand what you are saying. Thanks for the feedback. Really the candidate is irrelevant to my argument, and I would have written the same article had Bush gotten the 4 billion votes.

February 26, 2006 @ 12:44:27

broccoli.pngnot Masher1 (guest)

And Here Sits The Whole World Waiting.....for America to Get CONTROL of it's Bizerk leadership.

How long do you think you have?

Me? I think you stupids waited too DAMN long.

And we still wait.

February 26, 2006 @ 12:45:29

broccoli.pngnot Masher1 (guest)

And WAIT........

February 26, 2006 @ 12:48:06

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

For the record Masher1, I'm not into wholesale America bashing. There are a lot of good people here who do a lot of good things.

February 26, 2006 @ 12:51:20

broccoli.pngnot Masher1 (guest)

How come all you Americans think that your gov. is legal? Are you all Stupid? can you not see the signs? Are you all done? can you not muster even some civic backbone? If not your land will soon fall.

VERY SOON me thinks.

February 26, 2006 @ 12:55:14

operator.pngoperator (#008)

Flames and off-topic comments will be deleted. Thank you.

February 26, 2006 @ 13:05:52

broccoli.pngnot Eejitrecords (guest)

Masher, where are you from? I, xop, and millions of other Americans have been screaming about the signs for 6 years. So no, we're not stupid. We saw the signs. We see them still. And in case you didn't notice, this article is ABOUT the signs. I don't know where you're from, but in America we have to gather evidence to make our case, because that's what we believe is the right thing to do, whether our leadership agrees with us or not. You can't jump from Riga to Riyadh--you've got to take steps. Consider this a step.

Great post xop. It doesn't do us any good to hear numbers thrown out there and acting all knee-jerk-- knee-jerk is what gets us into wars that we shouldn't be fighting, decisions we know nothing about, etc. I'm glad people with expertise are deciphering this stuff and prodding it along. Thank you.

February 26, 2006 @ 13:11:26

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

I understand that in Las Vegas the source code for the various computerized gambling devices is maintained and verifiable in one (or more) locations. Why can't this approach be used as a model for the voting industry? (Perhaps the unfortunate demise of Athan Gibbs is the answer...)

February 26, 2006 @ 13:14:27

dog.pngangryguy (#1024)

Oh..my..GOD! I see ES&S is responsible for the Ohio discrepancies-PA just set up voting machines from the same company. Will it be "fixed" so Swann beats out Rendell for Governor? I HOPE NOT!! I liked Lynn as a Pittsburgh Steeler, but no way, no how, NOT as Governor. He tarnished the Jerome Bettis show by saying "we need leadership in Harrisburg. I never shut my TV off faster!! Rendell is doing better than the last admin., so let Ed be. If Swann wins, something's wrong somewhere.

February 26, 2006 @ 13:59:55

operator.pngoperator (#008)


February 26, 2006 @ 15:14:34

broccoli.pngnot iowachristine (guest)

I definitely hope that this gets around the blog world more. I've been reading in tech sources about the code for the electronic voting machines since late '99, early '00. IIRC, one article stated that the source was basically written in MS Access and we all know how 'secrue' MS software is, yes?? There have been story after story in the tech world about how easy it is to hack Diebold and ES&S machines.

The powers that be state that there are only 2 companies in the country that are 'certified' to be able to certify the electronic machines. But, these companies do not certify each and every single voting machine, just a sample sent in by the manufaturer (diebold and ES&S). So, that, IMNSHO, does not guarentee anything about any machine. There are no reviews of any of the machines once they go out to the various end users, as far as I know.

Human error in reading a -25mil value... yeah, right... Just the reading of a NEGATIVE number should bring up flags. We need secure voting machines with a hardcopy paper trail, or all elections should be held suspect.

February 26, 2006 @ 15:27:45

broccoli.pngnot Broccoli (guest)

Just a few comments from someone who's been following this for quite awhile.
The Diebold GEMS system source code was released (against Diebold's wishes, though it was sitting unprotected on an anonymous FTP of theirs) by Bev Harris of blackboxvoting.org
The program is a Microsoft Access application, but I'm unsure as to whether it was written in C, C#, VB or what. The source code was leaked in late 2003, and it's still out there if you look.
The most disturbing parts of the source code itself is that you can just open the .mdb backend without running the app. This allows you to manipulate the logs and votes without leaving a trace. The source code distribution, interestingly, came with a program to alter file access times. Try to think of a legitimate use for that.
Anyhow, bradblog.com has been covering this story as well as a parallel story (Clint Curtis) whereby a programmer was enlisted by Florida Republicans to hide buttons on the screen to adjust vote totals at runtime - http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm
This is not tin-foil hattery. There are sworn depositions, a polygraph test and sworn testimony given to members of the House Judiciary Committee.
Further, from the 2004 elections, the National Election Pool (owned by six big media companies) have refused to release the raw exit poll data for the exit polls they commissioned.
Alaska has recently refused to release GEMS tabulator files, "for security reasons".
"The state Democratic party has been attempting since December of last year to review the Diebold GEMS tabulator data files from the 2004 election in order to audit some of the strange results discovered in the state, including a reported voter turnout of more than 200% in some areas."
That's still on Bradblog.com. Search there as well for the recent hacking of a Diebold machine via memory card. If you know what brand and type of memory card they're using, you can replace it with your own and rig an election yourself.
We need to get DIEBOLD, ES&S and Sequoia out of our elections and run them with paper ballots.

February 26, 2006 @ 15:48:35

broccoli.pngnot broccoli (guest)

oops.. just reread my post and realized I left the wrong link.. had meant to leave this: http://www.bradblog.com/ClintCurtis.htm

The link I left above refers to Howard Dean hacking a Diebold GEMS machine on CNBC. Another Diebold machine was hacked on air by a consultant for the NPR show This American Life.

February 26, 2006 @ 16:36:50

broccoli.pngnot troubledUSA (guest)

Folks, the fix is in. Eejitrecords has a point that evidence of faulty voting machine functioning must be gathered in order to plead our case with election officials that so-called "black box" voting machines cannot be trusted. However, there are obstacles, which, when reviewed, point to the brilliance of the GOP's strategy in executing their "bloodless coup d'etat", which is nearly complete, unless "we the people" stand prepared to take the same "give me liberty or give me death" risks that Patrick Henry, Thomas Paine and the Founding Fathers did.

Bear with me. All the electronic voting machine manufacturers have close ties with the Bush political machine. Most, or all, are owned by, or are subsidiaries of, leading defense contractors.
After the 2000 election theft, (incidentally pulled off largely without the benefit of the machines, and based instead on massive voter intimidation, disenfranchisement, and felonious voter records tampering), states scrambled to find solutions to replace their aging voting machine systems. Bush's strategist, Karl Rove, and others, in many cases working with GOP governors and GOP-dominated state legislatures, touted electronic voting machines as the fail-safe solution. Skeptical state legislatures were stampeded into compliance with this strategy by well-orchestrated GOP campaigns accusing them of "doing nothing while integrity of the US voting system is at stake". (How brilliant--they caused the doubt with their felonious behavior in the first place, then turn around and use the resulting chaos to their advantage). When it looked as if implementation of these new systems was going to stall, BushCo. and the GOP-tilting Congress pressured spineless (sorry, no other word for it) Dems to go along with the 2002 Help America Vote Act, which miraculously provided BILLIONS of dollars to cash-strapped states to buy these machines. Essentially, billions of taxpayer dollars were funneled to BushCo's defense contractor allies, in exchange for which those corporations provided the states with the machines which would all but guarantee the future success of GOP candidates in 2002 (when the GOP cemented control of the US House and Senate) and of Bush and other GOP candidates in 2004. Not a peep from the mainstream, corporate controlled media when, lo and behold, several suspicious elections, notably in Georgia in 2002, resulted in severe underdog GOP candidates "upsetting" solid Democratic candidates in direct contradiction to all the exit polls which up to that point had shown the Dems winning by comfortable margins. The 2002 results proved to the GOP that its electronic election fraud system would work as advertised, so they went ahead and stole the 2004 election as well. The voter intimidation and criminal manipulation of eligible voter lists which trickled into the mainstream media may just have been to distract everyone (a typical Karl Rove tactic) from the core strategy-- "fixed" black box voting systems handing victory to BushCo and lesser GOP candidates.

OK, so let's suppose you gather evidence these machines have been tampered with. Question: How much more evidence do you need? And how much time do you suppose you have to gather and present it?

To answer the first question, go to www.votefraud.org, then BlackBoxVoting.org for the truth.

Now, about the second question. After the successful election frauds of 2000, 2002, and 2004, what makes you think the GOP is going to let citizens with the truth stop them in 2006? Why do you think they've worked so hard to install sympathetic allies in the House, the Senate and the Supreme Court??? Also, after the incredible success of the 9-11 Psy-Ops illusion, (steel encased buildings brought down by burning jet fuel?!--please Google "The Truth About 9-11" and "Impeach Bush" for links sites with stunning evidence of a sophisticated Bush-Saudi-Mossad conspiracy), the Pentagon's dark program funding of data-mining and domestic spying Ops (Google "DARPA" and "NSA Domestic Spying Scandal"), and the USA Constitution and Civil Rights Destruction Act (Google "USA Patriot Act"), why would they do anything to support the restoration of a functioning democracy? Unless, of course they have no choice, because real American patriots with backbones are standing up and SHOUTING about the lies, the deceptions and media complicity; getting in their "elected" representatives' faces and DEMANDING the truth be revealed; gearing up for a nationwide rebellion against the Bush junta and its government and corporate allies. If you've got solutions, bring them up, but please don't perpetuate the self-denial and illusion that we have to gather more evidence, and take more time before we take on the Dark Lords who are looking to close the loop on their efforts to control every aspect of our lives, 1984-style.

February 26, 2006 @ 17:02:43

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

Well, that certainly paints a scary picture.

I would like to offer my moderating opinion and reminder that if these machines can error without intervention (they can), or worse yet be hacked, it doesn't take a conspiracy to defraud our elections.

February 26, 2006 @ 17:07:26

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

As I stated in an earlier post, Athan Gibbs and his company TrueVote in Georgia had an honest, paper receipt, trackable system... now he is pushing up daisies. checkmate. Does anyone know who Marvin Bush is?

February 26, 2006 @ 17:14:01

broccoli.pngnot Masher1 (guest)

Me well I'm a Albertan, De Winton to be exact.
And any one that would continue to follow a mad man after 6 years of lies and confirmed vote fraud,and a false flag op,some torure,throw around TONS of Depleted Uranium, STUPID. Nothing Personal but

February 26, 2006 @ 17:28:07

broccoli.pngnot Masher1 (guest)


some Q ANY A?

February 26, 2006 @ 17:36:10

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

Well Masher1, you seem to feel strongly.

We are just the voice of one man or one woman. If you would also take the initiative to petition your own government to officially censure the Bush Administration, now THAT would make an impact.

If the people of Canada, Italy, Spain, etc spent as much time petitioning their representation to officially censure the Bush Administration as they do complaining about America, or as we Americans do writing OUR represenation, we may actually see the change in leadership our country, I feel, needs.

Did you ever think of that?

February 26, 2006 @ 17:42:20

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

uh, excuse me masher1, isn't this thread sort of devoted to discussing what's wrong with the status quo? why don't you go wank your superiority organ somewhere else.
nothing personal.

February 26, 2006 @ 17:43:07

broccoli.pngnot Masher1 (guest)

Rumsfeldt sure does think he owns the net this week.

i c u
u can not win

one left
hi NSA.....

February 26, 2006 @ 17:52:15

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

hey masher1 (and any nsa ppl listening in)
may your collective genitalia be struck by lightning

February 26, 2006 @ 17:54:00

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

They don't have to "listen in" ... this is an open thread. They can just read it.

February 26, 2006 @ 18:02:04

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

right you are xopl... my electrical curse remains in effect - double in spades...

February 26, 2006 @ 18:05:57

broccoli.pngnot Ken (guest)

Lost down the memory hole: Bob Dole cheating in the 1996 Republican primaries.

February 26, 2006 @ 18:10:41

broccoli.pngnot NotfromUSA (guest)

Elvinator, At least Canadians still have something in their pants ..... Not like you brokenback gay cowboys who wish you lived in a real democracy that actually had resources !! aren't as big an asshole as I am. I'm sure my fellow Canadians will forgive me for making the otherwise good people of Canada look bad.

Note from Operator: I fixed the glitch.

February 26, 2006 @ 18:12:02

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

big yuppers on old Bob Dole. now he is lobbying in favor of the Dubai Ports thang. (i guess the viagra thang didn't have any staying power...)

February 26, 2006 @ 18:21:17

operator.pngoperator (#008)


February 26, 2006 @ 18:31:57

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

well, it certainly looks as if we have pushed the envelope of this forum.

Operator: Comment edited for reasons of space or clarity.

February 26, 2006 @ 18:43:56

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

ok ok, i will lighten up... anyways, there is George (current POTUS,) Jeb (current GOFLA,) Niel (currently consorting w/Rev Sun Yung Moon,) and...
Marvin! (was in charge of World Trade Ctr security on 911, now "relationship mgr" with various electronic voting machine providers) smell test anyone?

February 26, 2006 @ 18:47:10

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

I invite and ENCOURAGE any counter arguments. Hell, I'd prefer to be wrong on this one. Not being able to trust our national elections is a sad belief to hold onto.

As I was saying, I invite debate... and the first such argument to be posted that DOESN'T turn into gay, Jewish, or Muslim bashing or employ near monolithic use of the word "fuck" will not be deleted by the Operator.

Thank you.

February 26, 2006 @ 18:48:45

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

I hadn't heard of little Marvin until his name popped up in the comments today. Pretty interesting stuff. Off topic nonetheless.

We're not talking 911 conspiracy theory here, we're talking the very REAL issue of electronic voting machine failure. Let us highlight this distinction.

February 26, 2006 @ 18:50:48

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

uh, as i was saying, there's a dead skunk in the middle of the road in the good old USofA and it's stinkin real bad right about now...

February 26, 2006 @ 18:53:40

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

uh, did i not claim that little marvin handles the government's relationship with the current cadre of electronic voting providers?

February 26, 2006 @ 19:03:12

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

Sorry, I missed that.

February 26, 2006 @ 19:11:37

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

marvin had a "magic car" (similar to JFK's "magic bullet,) google me this:
marvin bush bertha champagne
yup, bush family values would make a helluva prime time sitcom

February 26, 2006 @ 19:28:08

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

i apologise for straying off topic here. in fact, i am a bit and byte kinda guy who knows what an unsigned int is. so why do the current crop of voting machines have usb infrared ports installed on the side of the machines? ferchrissakes, someone with a palm pilot could alter the count with no one the wiser... look, these people play real hard hardball. whaddya think a tyrant will do, say "excuse me" and tiptoe away? i dont think so.

February 26, 2006 @ 19:29:43

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

i have said more than enough. wake up and smell the coffee.

February 26, 2006 @ 19:33:00

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

I saw the infrared ports... insult to injury.

I wish that the mainstream media would pick this up again. It's an almost taboo topic. If you talk about it you are still stuck in 2004, worse yet, 2000.

I didn't see any mainstream coverage of the Diebold coup in California, or its implications. It looks like CA is fight their Sec. of State on it? Good for them.

I'm happy I sparked even a little bit of netroots interest on the subject again (well, the blackboxvoting.org folks and others have continually been fighting the good fight) ... but I worry I'm preaching to the choir.

I'm going to try to get some version of this article published as an op ed in the local papers here. Gotta start somewhere.

February 26, 2006 @ 23:39:22

broccoli.pngnot Zion (guest)

What is the problem between xop and Masherl? Are they not sharing the same pew? And Xop, you seem to be a bit disingenuous about the use of profanity, being that you use the same language but within quotations. Nihilominus, excelent article! I am not a hacker, but I appreciate your thoroughness.

February 26, 2006 @ 23:43:31

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

I don't have a problem with dropping a few F-bombs... but when somebody posts something where every other word is fuck followed by either liberals, muslims, gays, or jews... I don't think that contributes much to humanity.

Thanks for your comments.

February 27, 2006 @ 03:15:07

broccoli.pngnot mmiixx (guest)

google clinton curtis re. election rigging .

February 27, 2006 @ 11:17:00

broccoli.pngnot curious1 (guest)

As a new reader I have a few questions:
-What percentage of the polling devices are currently electronic?
-I am a believer that where there is smoke there is fire, however, What is the next step to change this.. Can we ever really feel the electronics are safe? Just finding out there are only (2)certfied companies make you realize there are alot of tiers (from storage to trucking to polling sites) for something to be done to these machines before the voting public uses them. Is this really the best method? I mean there must be some alternative between dipping your finger in ink and punch cards with their shards?

February 27, 2006 @ 11:36:54

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

There is a helpful graphic on the front page of this website:


Some states have passed legislation requiring paper ballot trails, but there is still more work to be done.

February 27, 2006 @ 12:05:54

jem.pngpamelaNeko (#1001)

Oh, xopl, you're so popular!

Thanks, this is really <strike>sexy</strike> interesting.

February 27, 2006 @ 13:22:45

broccoli.pngnot justwondering (guest)

What country has a proven honest electoral system not subject to fraud? None. We are working on making our voting system honest, in the meantime, we are trying to avoid armed conflict with the illegal illegitimate government that is orchestrating this tyranny. Not much hope going against F16's with a shotgun, I am pretty sure our objectives will not be achieved with that approach.

February 27, 2006 @ 13:44:21

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

I clearly said to *petition* your Congress members... nobody is talking about shooting anybody.

February 27, 2006 @ 13:55:56

broccoli.pngnot CharlesPonzi (guest)

I tend to believe the story that a backdoor into the voting machines by modem exists. If it is true, this must be stopped. Personally, I could not have handled saying "President Kerry", but if he truly won, and an election was stolen, then this country has a huge problem.
Along with all the dead people who vote, ID theft voters and the multiple state voters, I find our entire system has flaws. It has for many years.

I grew up hearing the old saying, "Vote early and often" and even believe the story about the deal Joe Kennedy made with the Chicago mafia to assure JFK a primary win. Now the players go high-tech and can swing an election by phone? President Bush and K. Rove do not even know who will be running against Hillary, but they are sure she will lose.
How could they know? Easy, no matter what happens, about 50% of the voters will support each party. With the results sure to be close, it's easy to swing a few states to assure an outcome.
Maybe we should try the inked finger system, I heard it has worked in other free countries.

February 27, 2006 @ 14:00:16

television.pngvoteFRAUDfor911 (#1026)

Vote Fraud begot 911.

911 Controlled Demolition !


February 27, 2006 @ 14:12:32

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

Bringing 9/11 into this discussion just thins the waters of credibility around the very *real* problem of electronic voting machine failure and tampering.


February 27, 2006 @ 15:04:24

coleco.pngxopl (#001)


Some of the reports on this subject suggest an entire precinct in Mahoning County collectively reported negative 25 million votes. Not just one machine.

What does this mean? Some possibilities:

1. Many machines were tampered with.
2. The aggregated total from the machines was tampered with.
3. The machine that aggregates the totals from the individual machines is *severely* prone to errors.

The first option is not very likely, however option number two is just as likely, if not more likely, than my initial assertion that a single machine was tampered with.

Afterall, the results of one machine could be ignored and easily written off a single faulty machine. Whereas, hacking the results of an entire district would certainly draw much more attention. And as I have stated, negative 25 million votes / positive 4 billion votes, is exactly how somebody with the ability would draw such attention. (I should explicitly note that whether it was an aggregate machine or an individual voting machine, my technical analysis of the encoding of integers remains accurate for both.)

Too bad the elections officials just tossed the count out and put it on the books as another bit of 2004 elections trivia.

This really begs the frightening question: What machine is totalling the votes from the individual machines, and what kind of vulnerabilities does *it* have?

February 27, 2006 @ 16:41:56

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

It seems that each machine in the chain of voting tabulation MUST be held to the highest standards of security and verification. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

February 27, 2006 @ 16:57:01

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

Too true elvinator. Sadly, a common thread in computer security discussions is that people are always the weakest link.

I've kind of scared myself at the revelation that there may be yet ANOTHER computer involved after the computer that takes your vote. I haven't heard any real dicussion about securing those.

However, the people who are fighting the hardest for our rights are pushing paper ballot trails. If a computer somewhere in the middle got hacked, the paper would at least tell the truth in the recount.

What if the hackers just change say 1.5% of the votes on one of the aggregation computers? Would there even *be* a recount?

February 27, 2006 @ 17:16:04

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

My net aquaintences from around the globe, have told me that they receive a paper ballot each and every time they vote. In the best of circumstances they can log into a web site and, after personal verification, see how they voted for the past X number of years. At the risk of sounding cliche ridden, computers dont rig elections, people rig elections. Modems, infrared ports, ever smaller and removable media all contribute to the possibility of fraud. From my perspective the first major step is to put the software in the public domain where everyone can study the logic. Every time I hear the "secret/proprietary" argument I want to throttle someone... There are enough computer literate people who understand checksums and binary/executable integrity that this should be a no brainer.

February 27, 2006 @ 17:38:28

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

The "secret/propriety" argument that "keeping the machine secret makes them safer" is patently ridiculous. RSA, SSH, SSL, Blowfish, DES... all of the security and encryption standards everyone relies on daily are *all* OPEN standards.

Every time you do banking on the web, or buy stuff online with your credit card, you are protected with OPEN security standards.

If you use Firefox, and the web server you connect to uses Apache and OpenSSL (very common), then the entire transaction not only uses open security standards, but the whole entire thing is OPEN SOURCE.

Ask any computer security expert: secrecy never means security. It takes critical review by peers.

That's really not the end of the completely mind-boggling ridiculousness surrounding this whole thing. How in the HELL did machines that leave NO auditable paper record EVER make it into something as important as voting?

It doesn't fly for banks or hospitals or corporate records or anywhere else... so why voting?

February 27, 2006 @ 17:47:09

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

I have a bumper sticker on my car with the Faux News Logo, it says; "Fox News, The More You Watch, The Less You Know!" Perhaps we have been "dumbed down" to the point of not even needing to drink the Kool-Aid?

February 28, 2006 @ 04:19:59

broccoli.pngnot dixychik (guest)

I wish people would stop using the terms "vote fraud" and "voting fraud" because it is really ELECTION FRAUD. Voting fraud implies that the VOTERS are committing the fraud.
http://www.sweetliberty.blogspot.com (election fraud blog)

February 28, 2006 @ 15:12:04

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

Maybe the underlying theme of the movie "Easyrider" is true. Maybe Lady Liberty really is a whore and all of us (but especially the repugs) are like her pimp; enjoying the easy ride. Think about it, Flava Flave feeling up his hoes on cable tv. "Pimp My Ride" is tremendously popular. The glorification of the pimp and the denigration of his chattel is a meme/theme running through a lot of our popular culture. Its sad. Who gives a rats a#! about election fraud when everyone is chasing after pimp status and bling bling. It would certainly make a great Cohen bros. movie; where everyone gets exactly what they deserve. "Blood Simple" becomes "Pimp Simple."

February 28, 2006 @ 17:51:08

broccoli.pngnot Tavison (guest)

It could be a simple error. I don't buy the uninitialized variable, and I don't buy the hack completely. Think about this. How stable is software? How stable is software rushed out to meet a dealine, like an election? If my ATM is wrong, anybody remember the early problems with ATMS? then I can check it right away. I can't with my vote. What if instead this is a memory over run? After all, record numbers of voters were most likely not tested for, and Democratic counties had fewer machines, therefore stressing the system more. I think this is a critical issue, and software glitch or hacker, this is stupendously unacceptible.

March 1, 2006 @ 10:31:29

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

I made a clarification in my article. When I say "paper trail," it is NOT sufficient that the voting machine merely log the vote to paper after it has been cast. The voter MUST verify that the log of their vote is correct. Alternatively, the system could use paper ballots that are kept for recount purposes.


March 11, 2006 @ 10:12:11

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

I read yesterday that electronic vote machine providers are instructing the polling place attendants that the voting machine power plugs must be "daisy chained" for the machines to function properly. uh, doesn't anyone realise that data and operating system instructions can be transferred through power supply cables? one machine could theoretically corrupt every machine in the chain. This aint rocket science folks.

March 11, 2006 @ 11:12:18

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

What happens if you trip over the one power cord plugged into the wall? heh

March 19, 2006 @ 06:52:04

broccoli.pngnot elvinator (guest)

another "mis-count" in New Hampshire...
when is enough enough?

March 19, 2006 @ 12:28:42

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

Can you say massive protests of any and all inaugrations where the voting is called into question?

March 23, 2006 @ 02:33:04

broccoli.pngnot republican (guest)

You people are wacked. You lost in 00 and again in 04 just face it. How about all the deceased voters that voted dem. 25% of Gores votes were fraduglent. Now Kerry didn't make as big a scene as Gore so there was no investigation. Why is it the liberals that want more abscentee balloting? I know why; so they can at least make the election close by using criminal activity. The democrats will not win an election until they revise their adgenda. The dems are socalists (communists).

March 23, 2006 @ 07:45:57

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

Evidence? Links?

Didn't think so.

March 24, 2006 @ 14:46:33

cmonster.pngChristy (monster)

Look, Zach, you got a flamer! Does anyone else really appreciate the irony of the guy naming himself republican so that the field shows "not republican?"

March 24, 2006 @ 15:15:17

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

Yeah. He's a flamer! And he's trying to start a flame war, too.

March 24, 2006 @ 16:09:54

cmonster.pngChristy (monster)

Look who's talking!

March 24, 2006 @ 16:11:17

cmonster.pngChristy (monster)

Drr... Maybe I meant "troll". Personally, I like "flamer" better. Why aren't I lord-ess of the Internets?!

March 24, 2006 @ 16:13:57

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

That was a terrible movie.

March 24, 2006 @ 16:29:42

cmonster.pngChristy (monster)

Well, perhaps if *I* had been given the starring role, it would have been better. :D

March 27, 2006 @ 00:55:41

bettie.pngjmullan (#1015)

"Trolling for flames."

I am the court advisor of the internets, whispering into Zach's ear and making him old and feeble.

March 27, 2006 @ 02:01:44

cmonster.pngChristy (monster)

So THAT'S where the smell was coming from!

June 20, 2006 @ 22:12:49

broccoli.pngnot OhioVoter (guest)

A little checking revealed that the neg. 25 million was a number produced by a defective "PEB", a device used to transfer results to the central counting station on election night. The voting machine in question, like all ESS machines, contains redundant vote totals in 3 separate, independent memory devices. When the PEB was found to be defective, the actual totals were retrieved directly from the voting terminal. It was a problem quickly discovered and corrected.

June 21, 2006 @ 09:02:56

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

Post sources next time.

October 8, 2006 @ 20:23:24

broccoli.pngnot redstate (guest)

So, I guess you all know that we cheated, which means blue will never win. HA! HA! I love to hear you all cry about it. HA! HA!

October 8, 2006 @ 20:37:14

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

go fuck yourself *yawn*

November 8, 2006 @ 21:31:35

broccoli.pngnot mark (guest)

Voting fraud is easier than anyone thinks:


September 13, 2008 @ 03:47:16

coleco.pngxopl (#001)

Another link of record for the negative 25 million votes for Kerry:


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